Post by Steven Douglas Post by docufo Post by Steven Douglas Post by docufo
Carter wasn't in office
when the twin-recessionary period hit.
This is where you made it clear that you have no idea that
Carter was president in January of 1980. Just another
example of how ill-informed you are.
Post by docufo
And it was laid mostly on the
back of Reagan, as historians have written it.
Oh, your leftist historians? I really don't care what they
think, I lived through that time and I know what happened.
Post by docufo
Reagan's twin-recessions months apart.
It's amazing that you want to blame Reagan for things that
happened in 1980, while Carter was still in office. Why do
you think Carter lost reelection in such a landslide?
Post by docufo
You can't get the history of your own party right.
Oh, the irony!
Let's grovel for the tiny triumphs, shall we?
Is that what you were doing when you incorrectly said I can't
get the history of my own party right?
Post by docufo
Yes, Carter was in office when Iranian radicals seized the US Embassy in
Tehran - we should blame him for decades of subterfuge of Iran by the US
government with an unpopular puppet leader installed in the 1950's which
led to a radicalized deposed leader, Khomeini, exploiting their anger
towards the US and its allies. That led, in turn, to the seizure of the
US Embassy and years of more confrontations with Iran which Reagan
exploited for his political benefit - but not before sending his Defense
Sec. Rumsfeld for a friendly dinner and chat to enlist Hussein's help in
The Iran-Iraq war began in 1980. Just to remind you, Reagan had
not taken office when that war broke out. But it was Jimmy Carter
and his administration that began the overtures to Iraq to resume
diplomatic relations. Just so there is no confusion (since you seem
to believe Reagan was President in 1980), the following memo from
within the State Department was made in 1979. I assure you, Reagan
was definitely not in office in 1979.
Yes, the Iran-Iraq War began in 1980 after Saddam attacked Iran,
supported by US satellite and conventional aircraft surveillance that
was under both administrations' watch. You have a poor reading
comprehension. I never said he was in office in 1979 or 80. When naval
confrontations occurred in the Gulf in 1987-88 between US and Iranian
ships, Reagan sought a more friendly relationship with Saddam. And that
what was behind Rumsfeld's dinner date with Saddam.
Post by Steven Douglas
[quoting State Department internal memo from 1979] “The U.S. is
prepared to resume diplomatic relations with Iraq whenever Iraq is
ready to do so. We would welcome such a step.” [end quote]
Post by docufo
And after all that insanity, his former VP Bush became
President and attacked Iraq for invading Kuwait,
A coalition of 39 countries joined that attack. Or do you falsely believe
that GHW Bush did that all by himself?
LOL! Oh, you mean the few hundred Poles that joined up? Or--? The USA
was all over the battle areas, dominating the war action by far, ground,
air and naval.
Nope, the USA led the charge and had the biggest investment in oil and
gas production and deliveries.
It's amazing how you sat in this nation back then, watching live on TV
the US bombardment of Iraq, twice in history, by mostly US forces, chew
on your gourmet fudge and accept all the invasions and occupations,
regime changes and resulting long and hard times for those peoples as
necessary to get control over the "evil Islamic extremists" and give
Islam itself hard slams for being "inferior" to Christianity.
And then elect and support a psychopathic race-baiting authoritarian
President, even now as ex-Prez, who never made any serious attempt to
bring Palestine and Israel together in peace. A man whose support among
white supremacists meant helping Jews wasn't part of his agenda overall.
Staying in power was his main agenda even if it meant courting the worst
He was the hero to a majority of Israeli conservative Jews there because
he was the President that finally recognized Jerusalem as the true
capitol, and underlined it with a US Embassy slinky Ivanka's champagne
The only President to make good on his promise to make Jerusalem the
capitol! Whoopeeee! But, then there was no Palestinian participation, so
the little rockets rained down on Israel once more, with a horridly
devastating retaliatory destruction of Palestine's inner city area!
Progress made towards peace by Donnie Doomsday? Nah! He's out for every
fucking vote he can get anyway he can get it.
More warfare as a result? NO problem for the Madman of Mar-A-Lago!! He's
into constant warfare himself. Chaos, too.
Post by Steven Douglas Post by docufo
and then GWH's son
attacked Iraq for supposedly attempting to kill his daddy.
Actually, it was Bill Clinton who offered the first salvos to Iraq
for attempting to kill our former president. Have you forgotten
about that, or did you just never know about it?
And then Trump came along and engineered some peace deals
between Israel and some of its Arab neighbors!
Post by docufo
And that's just a part of the sickening violent and quite stupid
involvement the USA has had in just that part of the mess that is always
the Middle East, never without multiple crises that the USA feels it
must resolve, resorting to militarized responses and setting up more ill
feelings and confrontations on both sides.
Trump was in the middle of bringing those great peace deals.
It's such a shame that he wasn't given a chance to complete
Post by docufo
Carter brought two ancient foes, Egyptian Arab Muslims and Judea/Israeli
Jews together in a historic peace pact that has lasted to this day,
while other Presidents have presided over "MORE OF THE SAME" mayhem that
we still witness today in that region.
That's not true. How quickly you forget about Trump's great
achievements! Or is it that you just never knew about it?
Post by docufo
No end in sight for war hawks like yourself,
There was an end in sight, but Trump was not given a chance
to finish the job.
Post by docufo
who admitted you couldn't recall a US war with foreign
nations you haven't supported since at least the 1960's.
JFK said "we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any
hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to
assure the survival and the success of liberty."
It is certainly clear that this country no longer believes that.
Of course you'll continue to pretend that you're JFK guy, but
you know in your heart that you are not.
I hate the evil in this world, while you seem to love and defend
it. Someone once said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph
of evil is for good men to do nothing."
If you had your way (with your pacifism, which requires doing
NOTHING to stop evil), evil would prevail in this world.
Post by docufo
As Carter left office, Ronald Reagan was rewarded with the release of
the hostages and then went onto currying favor with Saddam in US
opposition to Iran, which at that time, was a major source of oil and
gas we dearly needed.
It wasn't just that, it was that the communists (whom you love
and adore) were also courting him, and we wanted to prevent
him from going over to their side.
Post by docufo
So, after Carter's "big loss" at election time, Ronnie went into 1981-82
with a very hard, but short recession that led to Reagonomics which ran
the national debt to a record high level.
Of course you don't know that Reaganomics actually increased
revenue to the federal treasury. It was increases in spending on
domestic programs that led to the deficits. That spending was
instituted by Democrats in Congress, who would only give Reagan
the increases in defense spending (during the Cold War) he wanted
by taking even larger increases in domestic spending.
Notice that the only time the budget has been balanced in recent
memory was during Clinton's presidency, when Republicans ran
Congress and did not give Clinton the huge domestic spending
bills he wanted passed.
I submit this bit of horrifying reality to challenge your alt reality
regenerated by swindler Donnie, that quickly makes mincemeat out of
Ronnie's "gloriously nostalgic" 8 years: (quote)
Reagan pushed for deregulation of industries, including banking; he
slashed income taxes for the wealthiest Americans in an experiment known
as “supply side” economics, which held falsely that cutting rates for
the rich would increase revenues and eliminate the federal deficit.
Over the years, “supply side” would evolve into a secular religion for
many on the Right, but Reagan’s budget director David Stockman once
blurted out the truth, that it would lead to red ink “as far as the eye
While conceding that some of Reagan’s economic plans did not work out as
intended, his defenders including many mainstream journalists still
argue that Reagan should be hailed as a great President because he “won
the Cold War,” a short-hand phrase that they like to attach to his
However, a strong case can be made that the Cold War was won well before
Reagan arrived in the White House. Indeed, in the 1970s, it was a common
perception in the U.S. intelligence community that the Cold War between
the United States and the Soviet Union was winding down, in large part
because the Soviet economic model had failed in the technological race
with the West.
That was the view of many Kremlinologists in the CIA’s analytical
division. Also, I was told by a senior CIA’s operations official that
some of the CIA’s best spies inside the Soviet hierarchy supported the
view that the Soviet Union was headed toward collapse, not surging
toward world supremacy, as Reagan and his foreign policy team insisted
in the early 1980s.
The CIA analysis was the basis for the détente that was launched by
Nixon and Ford, essentially seeking a negotiated solution to the most
dangerous remaining aspects of the Cold War.
The Afghan Debacle
In that view, Soviet military operations, including sending troops into
Afghanistan in 1979, were mostly defensive in nature. In Afghanistan,
the Soviets hoped to prop up a pro-communist government that was seeking
to modernize the country but was beset by opposition from Islamic
fundamentalists who were getting covert support from the U.S. government.
Though the Afghan covert operation originated with Cold Warriors in the
Carter administration, especially national security adviser Zbigniew
Brzezinski, the war was dramatically ramped up under Reagan, who traded
U.S. acquiescence toward Pakistan’s nuclear bomb for its help in
shipping sophisticated weapons to the Afghan jihadists (including a
young Saudi named Osama bin Laden).
While Reagan’s acolytes cite the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan as
decisive in “winning the Cold War,” the counter-argument is that Moscow
was already in disarray and while failure in Afghanistan may have sped
the Soviet Union’s final collapse it also created twin dangers for the
future of the world: the rise of al-Qaeda terrorism and the nuclear bomb
in the hands of Pakistan’s unstable Islamic Republic.
Trade-offs elsewhere in the world also damaged long-term U.S. interests.
In Latin America, for instance, Reagan’s brutal strategy of arming
right-wing militaries to crush peasant, student and labor uprisings left
the region with a legacy of anti-Americanism that is now resurfacing in
the emergence of populist leftist governments.
In Nicaragua, for instance, Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega (whom Reagan
once denounced as a “dictator in designer glasses”) is now back in
power. In El Salvador, the leftist FMLN won the latest national
elections. Indeed, across the region, hostility to Washington is now the
rule, creating openings for China, Iran, Cuba and other American rivals.
In the early 1980s, Reagan also credentialed a young generation of
neocon intellectuals, who pioneered a concept called “perception
management,” the shaping of how Americans saw, understood and were
frightened by threats from abroad.
Many honest reporters saw their careers damaged when they resisted the
lies and distortions of the Reagan administration. Likewise, U.S.
intelligence analysts were purged when they refused to bend to the
propaganda demands from above.
To marginalize dissent, Reagan and his subordinates stoked anger toward
anyone who challenged the era’s feel-good optimism. Skeptics were not
just honorable critics, they were un-American defeatists or in Jeane
Kirkpatrick’s memorable attack line they would “blame America first.”
Under Reagan, a right-wing infrastructure also took shape, linking media
outlets (magazines, newspapers, books, etc.) with well-financed think
tanks that churned out endless op-eds and research papers. Plus, there
were attack groups that went after mainstream journalists who dared
disclose information that poked holes in Reagan’s propaganda themes.
In effect, Reagan’s team created a faux reality for the American public.
Civil wars in Central America between impoverished peasants and wealthy
oligarchs became East-West showdowns. U.S.-backed insurgents in
Nicaragua, Angola and Afghanistan were transformed from corrupt, brutal
(often drug-tainted) thugs into noble “freedom-fighters.”
With the Iran-Contra scandal, Reagan also revived Richard Nixon’s theory
of an imperial presidency that could ignore the nation’s laws and evade
accountability through criminal cover-ups. That behavior also would rear
its head again in the war crimes of George W. Bush. [For details on
Reagan’s abuses, see Robert Parry’s Lost History and Secrecy & Privilege.]
Wall Street Greed
The American Dream also dimmed during Reagan’s tenure. While he played
the role of the nation’s kindly grandfather, his operatives divided the
American people, using “wedge issues” to deepen grievances especially of
white men who were encouraged to see themselves as victims of “reverse
discrimination” and “political correctness.”
Yet even as working-class white men were rallying to the Republican
banner (as so-called “Reagan Democrats”), their economic interests were
being savaged. Unions were broken and marginalized; “free trade”
policies shipped manufacturing jobs abroad; old neighborhoods were
decaying; drug use among the young was soaring.
Meanwhile, unprecedented greed was unleashed on Wall Street, fraying
old-fashioned bonds between company owners and employees.
Before Reagan, corporate CEOs earned less than 50 times the salary of an
average worker. By the end of the Reagan-Bush-I administrations in 1993,
the average CEO salary was more than 100 times that of a typical worker.
(At the end of the Bush-II administration, that CEO-salary figure was
more than 250 times that of an average worker.)
Many other trends set during the Reagan era continued to corrode the
U.S. political process in the years after Reagan left office. After
9/11, for instance, the neocons reemerged as a dominant force, reprising
their “perception management” tactics, depicting the “war on terror”
like the last days of the Cold War as a terrifying conflict between good
The hyping of the Islamic threat mirrored the neocons’ exaggerated
depiction of the Soviet menace in the 1980s and again the propaganda
strategy worked. Many Americans let their emotions run wild, from the
hunger for revenge after 9/11 to the war fever over invading Iraq.
Arguably, the descent into this dark fantasyland that Ronald Reagan
began in the early 1980s reached its nadir in the flag-waving early days
of the Iraq War. Only gradually did reality begin to reassert itself as
the death toll mounted in Iraq and the Katrina disaster reminded
Americans why they needed an effective government.
Still, the disasters set in motion by Ronald Reagan continued to roll
in. Bush’s Reagan-esque tax cuts for the rich blew another huge hole in
the federal budget and the Reagan-esque anti-regulatory fervor led to a
massive financial meltdown that threw the nation into economic chaos.
The moral, social decline of America began in the 1980s while we were
enjoying a booming period that hid the degeneration, and pretty much
DisneyLand America continued rolling on until Islamic radicals attacked
NYC and DC on 9-11-2001. After than shocking event, ultraconservatives
grouped around GW Bush to push him into being more like Ronnie - tough
talking, militaristic, insanely nationalistic.
And it partly worked, but neocons like yourself yearned for a
resurrection of Ronnie. Not finding any real satisfaction with
conventional politicians like Mitt Romney and miffed by mavericks like
McCain, neocons like yourself discovered Donnie Darko. He was full of
spittin' fire and mad about money! And he has now become the apparent
reshaping force pushing the GOP into extremism, even as he contends his
"electoral victory theft" by evil radical Dems dictates a mass rejection
of the electoral system in 2022 and 2024, which he has fervently called
Your Ronnie began the drift downward to moral and social decay decades
ago when it pitted the extreme Right against the Left, backed by
evangelicals, and now backed additionally by white supremacist groups.
And the message from your side has always been that conservatives are
morally, socially, intellectually superior folks threatened by the
"inferior" qualities of the Left. And that means the leftists need to be
treated like deadly pathogens, endangering Ronnie and Donnie's Fantasy
Land of endless wealth, narcissism galore, nutty nationalism and
hegemonic domination over all other nations, sucking out vast resources
of the planet to keep Minnie and Mickey happy lil' mice.
Well, you and your ilk had your day in the Sun, junior. And now it's
time for some more hard reality - civil war. War being humanity's
biggest behavioral failure, its most costly and foolhardy, wasteful and
And you can owe its earliest beginnings to the Ronald Reagan era. And
now topped by an ex-Republican President, Donnie, that won't concede
while uniting an angry, violent variety of hate groups to ensure Jan.
6th wasn't just a shot fired over the bow.