Discussion:
High resolution video of exoplanets?
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JTEM is Magic
2021-10-11 05:52:46 UTC
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Explains the upward limits of imaging technology.
Absent a quantum leap.






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JTEM is Magic
2021-10-11 06:14:40 UTC
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Post by JTEM is Magic
http://youtu.be/pwTYfI9JUl8
Explains the upward limits of imaging technology.
Absent a quantum leap.
I need to add: I think he's wrong in claiming that there are no "Lurkers" within
our solar system.

Well. Okay. So the odds are against it. That, even if intelligent species sent
them they rotted away a billion years ago, or millions or tens of thousands
or won't arrive here for 100 thousand years...

In other words, he's right in that the odds are small. But as small as they
are, they've got to be far better than our odds of detecting the signals from
a technological species.

The same timing issues that we face with technology exist with signals --
we missed them or they have yet to arrive -- but there's the added problem
were the signals would be so weak that we have no way of reading them
anyway.

BUT, if there is a "Lurker" then the signal would have to be strong enough for
us to detect... providing we could inspect them all the way around.

As he points out, an alien signal would in all probability have to be a beam,
directed at a single point, to minimize the loss and maximize the strength. So
unless we inspect an alien probe from every direction, it's possible we would
miss the fact that it is a probe!

We might detect a weird heat signature or some type of radiation, signal
effect that's "Different," or we might even spot a weird shape or materials.
But if aliens made an attempt to conceal their technology we couldn't count
on anything.

WORSE: A probe could have died millions of years ago! It might've arrived
10 million years ago, and died 100,000 years later. And as far as any of us
know, it's impossible to make machines that last even THAT long! So it
would require some ridiculously advanced engineering, compared to what
we can imagine, just to operate a thousand years after traveling all the way
here!

So, in short: Search locally for aliens. Search within our solar system. It's
a long shot, but a much better shot than distant worlds.












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Mike
2021-10-11 06:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM is Magic
http://youtu.be/pwTYfI9JUl8
Explains the upward limits of imaging technology.
Absent a quantum leap.
I need to add: I think he's wrong in claiming that there are no "Lurkers" within
our solar system.
Well. Okay. So the odds are against it. That, even if intelligent species sent
them they rotted away a billion years ago, or millions or tens of thousands
or won't arrive here for 100 thousand years...
In other words, he's right in that the odds are small. But as small as they
are, they've got to be far better than our odds of detecting the signals from
a technological species.
The same timing issues that we face with technology exist with signals --
we missed them or they have yet to arrive -- but there's the added problem
were the signals would be so weak that we have no way of reading them
anyway.
BUT, if there is a "Lurker" then the signal would have to be strong enough for
us to detect... providing we could inspect them all the way around.
As he points out, an alien signal would in all probability have to be a beam,
directed at a single point, to minimize the loss and maximize the strength. So
unless we inspect an alien probe from every direction, it's possible we would
miss the fact that it is a probe!
We might detect a weird heat signature or some type of radiation, signal
effect that's "Different," or we might even spot a weird shape or materials.
But if aliens made an attempt to conceal their technology we couldn't count
on anything.
WORSE: A probe could have died millions of years ago! It might've arrived
10 million years ago, and died 100,000 years later. And as far as any of us
know, it's impossible to make machines that last even THAT long! So it
would require some ridiculously advanced engineering, compared to what
we can imagine, just to operate a thousand years after traveling all the way
here!
So, in short: Search locally for aliens. Search within our solar system. It's
a long shot, but a much better shot than distant worlds.
Since I believe in the simulation hypothesis, space is not
a significant barrier at all. Any world can be simulated just
on your computer screen. All you need is a simple device
that would let you know if a particular simulation actually
represents a factual one. Since every multiverse exists then
every simulation exists also. Besides, if you can simulate
a world, that simulation is in essence the world that you
are simulating. Suppose for instance you could simulate
a world, that means there are two of the same world now,
the real world and it's counterpart simulation. If your
simulations are perfect enough there would be no way to
distinguish it from real and so the imaginary or non-real
simulations become real the moment you simulate them. I
hope you can understand my train of thought. I know it might
be cumbersome to follow. You could travel the multiverse
from the comforts of your couch.
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JTEM is Magic
2021-10-11 21:42:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Since I believe in the simulation hypothesis, space is not
a significant barrier at all. Any world can be simulated just
on your computer screen. All you need is a simple device
that would let you know if a particular simulation actually
represents a factual one. Since every multiverse exists then
every simulation exists also. Besides, if you can simulate
a world, that simulation is in essence the world that you
are simulating. Suppose for instance you could simulate
a world, that means there are two of the same world now,
the real world and it's counterpart simulation. If your
simulations are perfect enough there would be no way to
distinguish it from real and so the imaginary or non-real
simulations become real the moment you simulate them. I
hope you can understand my train of thought. I know it might
be cumbersome to follow. You could travel the multiverse
from the comforts of your couch.
To simulate me you need a truck load of data about me, including
some pretty high resolution images. But you need personality
traits, habits, likes & dislikes...

Alternatively, all that is necessary is a shit ton of data on YOU.

See, if you know YOUR point of you, YOUR expectations, what
YOU believe about me then I can simulate that pretty damn
easily. Someone wouldn't need to know a lot about me. In fact,
knowledge about me might be a hinderance, as it would likely
conflict with your expectations/beliefs.

The same for alien planets. I don't need to know about distant
worlds, I need to know about YOU: Your beliefs, your expectations.
If I want to fool YOU, convince YOU that a simulated alien world is
real, the more I know about YOU the better. Alien worlds themselves
are largely irrelevant.






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Mike
2021-10-11 22:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM is Magic
Post by Mike
Since I believe in the simulation hypothesis, space is not
a significant barrier at all. Any world can be simulated just
on your computer screen. All you need is a simple device
that would let you know if a particular simulation actually
represents a factual one. Since every multiverse exists then
every simulation exists also. Besides, if you can simulate
a world, that simulation is in essence the world that you
are simulating. Suppose for instance you could simulate
a world, that means there are two of the same world now,
the real world and it's counterpart simulation. If your
simulations are perfect enough there would be no way to
distinguish it from real and so the imaginary or non-real
simulations become real the moment you simulate them. I
hope you can understand my train of thought. I know it might
be cumbersome to follow. You could travel the multiverse
from the comforts of your couch.
To simulate me you need a truck load of data about me, including
some pretty high resolution images. But you need personality
traits, habits, likes & dislikes...
Alternatively, all that is necessary is a shit ton of data on YOU.
See, if you know YOUR point of you, YOUR expectations, what
YOU believe about me then I can simulate that pretty damn
easily. Someone wouldn't need to know a lot about me. In fact,
knowledge about me might be a hinderance, as it would likely
conflict with your expectations/beliefs.
The same for alien planets. I don't need to know about distant
worlds, I need to know about YOU: Your beliefs, your expectations.
If I want to fool YOU, convince YOU that a simulated alien world is
real, the more I know about YOU the better. Alien worlds themselves
are largely irrelevant.
I wouldn't say I believe, but speculate that it's possible
to simulate an entire Universe, perhaps even a Multiverse
if you could extract all the data from one single photon.
Think of how much information only one photon from
a distant world may have.

Even for a photon, encyclopedias could be written about it.
The weight of the information on photons far exceeds the
weight of the photon itself. Of course, like you said, what
you decide to read in the encyclopedia depends very much
on you, but still, all information has some kind of value and
can be utilized for something.

Instead of transmuting information they could be transmitting
'seeds'. DNA is a seed and life works on the principle of seeds.
The seed doesn't contain all the information needed to build a
body, but in essence is like a formula or equation to create that
being. Seeds can be transmitted with light and it wouldn't
surprise me if the Universe takes advantage of this feature.
All you might need is to collect a few photons from a distant
star, feed them to the simulator and VOILA, a door into
that reality has been opened. Who knows, maybe that's
what the Mayans and Egyptians did. There could be a common
'language' known to all consciousnesses internally that doesn't
require symbols. May intuitions and feelings are part of that
language, maybe it's thoughts, colors, but something common
to everything.
Post by JTEM is Magic
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JTEM is Magic
2021-10-12 04:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
I wouldn't say I believe, but speculate that it's possible
to simulate an entire Universe, perhaps even a Multiverse
if you could extract all the data from one single photon.
Think of how much information only one photon from
a distant world may have.
Like I said, I could simulate ANYTHING by just gathering every bit of
data on you. Then I could build a simulation that builds on your
beliefs, your expectations... hopes... desires...

Simulations would actually be more effective if you ignored reality,
concentrated on the biases of the person for whom the simulation
is built for. Reality might conflict with your understanding of the
universe. It may fail to meet your expectations. It may not meet your
sense of credible. And fooling you -- with a simulation that seems
real -- is all about YOU anyway, so why even bother looking at the
universe?

ALSO: No need for consciousness in a simulation.

Artificial Intelligence is one thing, but an artificial consciousness?

Why?

What would be the point?





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Mike
2021-10-12 05:48:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM is Magic
Post by Mike
I wouldn't say I believe, but speculate that it's possible
to simulate an entire Universe, perhaps even a Multiverse
if you could extract all the data from one single photon.
Think of how much information only one photon from
a distant world may have.
Like I said, I could simulate ANYTHING by just gathering every bit of
data on you. Then I could build a simulation that builds on your
beliefs, your expectations... hopes... desires...
Simulations would actually be more effective if you ignored reality,
concentrated on the biases of the person for whom the simulation
is built for. Reality might conflict with your understanding of the
universe. It may fail to meet your expectations. It may not meet your
sense of credible. And fooling you -- with a simulation that seems
real -- is all about YOU anyway, so why even bother looking at the
universe?
ALSO: No need for consciousness in a simulation.
Artificial Intelligence is one thing, but an artificial consciousness?
Why?
What would be the point?
I do remember an old Star Trek episode
where a civilization of women stole Spock's
brain and hooked it up to some sort of controller
for a computer. I'm not quite sure why your comments
remind me of that particular episode.

Spock's Brain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spock%27s_Brain
Post by JTEM is Magic
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